Hubzilla Brasil

my house near the sea, Sun, 30 Sep 2018 19:56:49 -0300

So today I found nudity without tag n s f w both in this channel and in the other one I use for the federation. As it happens in diaspora, but now they are hubzilla people. And, as happens in diaspora, even these people now get angry if you kindly ask to use the tag in certain posts.

Why these people see the tag n s f w as if it is a censorship or a block or a monster, I honestly do not understand this. it is just a tool that serves for a certain purpose, restrict a post so as to hide it until someone clicks.

I think that some people are really ignorant and stubborn.

show all 41 comments

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

Sun, 30 Sep 2018 21:15:12 -0300 last edited: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 21:16:29 -0300

I politely disagree, but more importantly - you are touching on a cultural boundry, i.e. our entire societies are evaluating the presens of nudity completly different and this cannot be glossed over. It is annoying to be told our evaluation of nudity is wrong, and your evaluation is right. What I am trying to tell you is this: I am tolerating your society's shame of nudity every time I add the nudity is shameful tag because you are my friend or to be polite, I still think it is silly and a form of cultural imperialism imposed on my society's values of nudity as harmless. This goes double for women (think free the nipple), who in some countries cannot breastfeed their own babies in public - what is that?! Should it not be more shameful to prevent a baby from being fed? One of the most beautiful images I have is of the exact moment my firstborn son is so stuffed with his mother's milk he dozes off at the tit with a drop of milk on his chubby cheek. Being told to hide that infant in that moment with a nudity is shameful tag, now that is so infantile to me and I want to scream "Grow up!" and it makes me so angry and sad to think about that I will never share that moment with you, because I know any hint there is something wrong with that image I will never forgive you and I do not want to be put in that situation with my friends.

giac hellvecio

Sun, 30 Sep 2018 22:35:50 -0300

the problem in my opinion is another: if a person asks you to use the tag, then you use it, and without complaint, because the tag only serves to do a simple thing, and not to block or delete a post.
In truth it costs nothing to use a tag. Nothing!
But the ignorant person instead makes it as a personal battle, the ignorant person sees the tag as an enemy of freedom.

It is here that I get angry
If a person asks you to use it, for education and respect to your friend-contact, you use it. Simple.

The question is not when I have to use, I can not always know when.

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

Mon, 01 Oct 2018 13:04:17 -0300

We can agree friends on both sides of the cultural border want to behave well towards one another. However, "When in Rome do as the Romans" does not work in a situation where posters are in their "Rome" whereever they are and readers of posts are visiting the poster. Facebook did and still do that error, remember "Napalm Girl"? Sure, centralized Facebook went a step further and actively censor stuff on what they consider their "Rome", but underneath or rather outside, Facebook employees bring in their culture of nudity is shameful - US law is just codified culture with penalty for transgressions. I am not ignorant about other cultures, I am trying the best I can to explain and have you accept the premiss of nudity as shameful is not universal, the Nordic countries are different on this issue. I will give you a few examples from Norway today. Oslo town hall has a huge naked woman above the door. Vigeland's Park - the biggest park in Norway is filled with nude stone statues of all ages and sexes with a big stone phallos made of people in the middle. This is a favourite spot for Sunday walks with the kids and lunches in the park. At Drammen train station three naked girls are standing in a fountain. The international food festival was there last Saturday. I will give you two from Denmark too; a naked little girl is standing outside the church here in Rudkøbing and in Svendborg mermaids in a fountain are touching each other fondly - that one is more Danish than Norwegian. Erotisisms are in general more acceptable in Denmark than in Norway and Sweden. In 1869, the mainstream daily newspaper Dagbladet was founded, and today the online version has 1.4 million daily views, children and adults read it alike. Today is a piece on the identification of the woman in Gustav Courbet's 1866 painting «L’Origine du monde» as Parisian ballet dancer Constance Queniaux, which is a nude painting of her from the bottom up. She has been identified because of the colour of her dark pubic hair, which was unlike the painter's red headed girlfriend, and from a new translation of some letters. Of course Norwegian Dagbladet has a picture of the painting, which is my point; no regular American newspaper would do that because that society evaluates nudity differently from Norwegians and other Nordic countries. 1.4 million people of all ages saw that image today, some read the article, but nobody raised an eyebrow and simply moved on. (I think The Guardian reported this first). Anyway, putting aside this painting and other nudity for a bit, unlike centralized solutions like Facebook Ltd belonging to the American culture, I think the decentralized nature of Hubzilla is perfect for working across jurisdictions in the global community. We can have hubs in different jurisdictions. We have a real shot at solving multiple cultures coexisting rather than stepping on each other in the decentralized realm. However, when you write

If a person asks you to use it, for education and respect to your friend-contact, you use it. Simple.

I feel you bring in the centralized policy mindset and my answer is no, this is not simple - you want me to respect you, but what about you respecting me? How to interact with two or three or more different policies? As we know, we can move from a ruled based ethics to an ethics of consequence, and you would argue from a consequence of embarrasement or loss of job, which is valid, and I would argue from a consequence of spreading shame where no shame exists today, which to you may seem small, but to me it is big. Given I do know something of other cultures, know that I restrain myself quite frequently to be nice, you have a "chilling effect" on my natural Norwegian form of expression. I would post much more nude people if this was an audience of Nordic people only. Most of the time, it is no biggy for me to do that, but when you get angry about it, I get angry back because you assume you are in the right to be angry and I think you are wrong to just assume ignorance or cultural arrogance on my part, we are different and how do we resolve that? I honestly do not know. Rather than you asking me to tag, it would be equally fair for me to ask you to separate work and personal conversations - do not read Hubzilla at work, then me posting beautiful nudity will not be a problem at your end. Either way, this is real for both of us and not simple. Pease, love and nudity, friend. :heart:

giac hellvecio

Mon, 01 Oct 2018 16:03:04 -0300

for me the situation is very simple, and has nothing to do with all these speeches.
We are talking about the n s f w tag, and its use, and not other things. :)

If your contact asks you: "please put the tag in this post, because I can have problems in the workplace" (just an example)
you, if you are a respectable and polite person towards your contacts, accept ...and without making controversy.
it is just a rule of good cohabitation, and the tag is a simple, painless and useful tool.

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

Mon, 01 Oct 2018 17:52:43 -0300

giac hellvecio

Mon, 01 Oct 2018 18:09:42 -0300

If I know you, and for years, and I ask you, "please put the tag in this post that I find myself in an embarrassing situation in the workplace" is even worse for me if the person does not put the tag and creates a controversy.
Because in my opinion is him and not me who does not show empathy.
The tag is what? a torture? No, just one useful tool.
If the person considers the tag to be a torture then I think he was wrong completely.
It is not a question of culture to consider the tag a torture.
But it is a matter of education and respect to act in a certain way instead.

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

Mon, 01 Oct 2018 18:42:15 -0300

The problem of culturally diagreeable content is to at every turn reverse the responsibility for the content being a problem at your end as a problem at my end. The tech used to address the disagreement is not the issue. The tag is not a torture, neither is deleting a post you do not like, nor stopping surfing personal social media during office hours on your bosses clock, or blocking or deleting the connection, i.e. is it not equally right to fix the problem where the problem is - on your end? I think you can add the tag yourself, it used to work like that I think? I do not think I would even know you did it?

Alexandre Hannud Abdo

Mon, 01 Oct 2018 18:42:27 -0300

I tend to agree that the solution should come from the side that is bothered by nudity, specially because it is easy to solve. Just create a privacy group with only contacts who are "safe for work according to your criteria", and use that at work. Then at home you can read stuff from your "not safe for work according to your criteria" contacts.

The side posting nudity cannot currently solve it like that, because there is no option to add the n.s.f.w. tag only to those contacts who are sensitive to nude art, and in any case it would be virtually impossible to keep track of all different cultural sensibilities. What I consider disrespectful is expecting another person to send to all his contacts a n.s.f.w. tag on nude art only because of your society's idea of shame.

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

Mon, 01 Oct 2018 18:56:53 -0300

That is a very good idea, Alexandre, and it requires people to talk about these issues from time to time. Perhaps we can add some of the local reasons and options for solutions - tags and privacy groups to a Multi-Cultural Federation Netiquette?

giac hellvecio

Mon, 01 Oct 2018 19:37:00 -0300 last edited: Mon, 01 Oct 2018 19:38:26 -0300

the problem for me is when the person is offended just because one has placed the tag or asked to place it. The person is offended and begins to say a lot of bullshit, for what? Just for a tag.

I stopped using Diaspora years ago for some reasons, and continued here because in this community, until a few days ago, everyone thought of it in a certain way about using the tag n s f w

In this community since friendica has always gone this way.
I have absolute respect for the way you ask and how you use the tag.
If this has now become like diaspora, where there is total anarchy most of the time, then it is really time to stop for me.
I honestly thought that here in hubzilla still was different, and that there was respect for the question of receiving a tag in a post, without getting angry or creating a discussion just because the tag .
Receive the tag and that's it, without discussing. It' s just a tag, a tool. If someone puts the tag, evidently he has a reason to do it. Closed. No discussion.

do you know why? Because at that moment it seems a question of respect and that's it, and because I like it, how the community has always thought about it.
But I understand things, and I understand that everything changes, as I understand when it is time to change paths. LOL
.

giac hellvecio

Mon, 01 Oct 2018 19:46:05 -0300

And what about the /pubstream? I changed the pubstream for to having just people from hubzilla or just people from the hub, and , one day arrives a man that post things the we do not like to see in the pubstream without the tag , I say "plz use the tag for this post", and the other : "No, i do not put the tag here"
What about the /pubstream ?
So, that solution does not work it seems .... Pubstream is public, for all, also outside hubzilla...

What do you do with this ?

giac hellvecio

Mon, 01 Oct 2018 19:59:10 -0300 last edited: Mon, 01 Oct 2018 19:59:43 -0300

I talk as admin in a hub. What I can do with /pubstream of my hub ?
I leave that one man in the hub post a vagina in a public post, which then goes to finish in the pubstream of my hub? and all the Puritan people who arrive in the pubstream, all the Jehovah's Witnesses, or the nuns coming?
"No sorry, you, fuck-puritan, all go to fuck, we are the revolution hub and we put vaginas in the our /pubstream" ?
Is this a solution? LOL

Alexandre Hannud Abdo

Mon, 01 Oct 2018 20:02:33 -0300

Most hardcore porn sites are public. What do you do? You just don't visit them at work, or whatever your problematic location is.

So, create a privacy group of people who correspond to your cultural sensibility, and when at work only access Hubzilla through that privacy group.

All you have to do is bookmark the link to open the privacy group instead of your full network.

giac hellvecio

Mon, 01 Oct 2018 20:16:36 -0300

I talk as admin. I just leave vaginas in the pubstream ?
Is that your solution?
" So , my friend Mario i just invited you to look and see a different thing from facebook, take a look in this thing that I admin ..just look here /pubstream... is a good alternative , also there is good people.....but...wait..wait..No you can not my friend..No No...go away " LOL

Alexandre Hannud Abdo

Mon, 01 Oct 2018 20:18:50 -0300

About public streams, if you accept content from other hubs you should know and assume that there will be culturally sensible content in the stream, and you must either manually filter that or accept your stream will have that kind of content.

If you do not accept content from other hubs in your public stream (I don't even know if that's a possibility, but let's assume it is) then there should either be a way to block some channels' content from being presented in the public stream, or your terms of service should clearly state what kind of content must either be private or contain a n.s.f.w. tag.

giac hellvecio

Mon, 01 Oct 2018 20:20:53 -0300

" there should either be a way to block some channels' content from being presented in the public stream"
Where? I can not see this
I just have pubstream of the hub

giac hellvecio

Mon, 01 Oct 2018 20:22:17 -0300

You can define /set if you want just pubstream of your hub, is what I did months ago.

Alexandre Hannud Abdo

Mon, 01 Oct 2018 20:44:06 -0300

I meant "there should" as a hypothetical. I don't think there currently is, so yes, you're only left with the other possibility.

hEARt PhoniX

Tue, 02 Oct 2018 00:10:13 -0300

You can somewhat limit the public stream as admin.

Only import Public stream posts with this text

Do not import Public stream posts with this text

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

Tue, 02 Oct 2018 03:35:25 -0300

Yes, but what about images?

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

Tue, 02 Oct 2018 04:48:08 -0300

I have an idea where both parties help each other. Upon upload of an image a tag score is automatically set based on the overall presens of skin colour / other skin algorithm, see e.g. https://arxiv.org/pdf/1708.02694. The tag score works like a spam score, i.e. nothing happens at the poster's end, except perhaps a notice of high skin score to alert the poster. If the hub is in a low skin threshold jurisdiction, it may even be stopped to prevent trouble for the admin. However, more importantly, hub admins or channel owners at the receiving end could set a threshold based on the tag score for when images from all/group/individual channels where automatically tagged and shown closed at their end.

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

Tue, 02 Oct 2018 05:22:51 -0300

Oh, I just remembered, we already have the affinity slider - just add a low score to channels you need to be careful with (the stress being on you).

Radio Giaco

Tue, 02 Oct 2018 09:55:07 -0300

tobias, how this /patterns/ means in that admin tool?
I want to try this...but I don't know how to really use

Radio Giaco

Tue, 02 Oct 2018 10:00:19 -0300

Do not import Public stream posts with this text
words one per line or #tags or /patterns/ or lang=xx, leave blank to import all posts

Radio Giaco

Tue, 02 Oct 2018 10:18:34 -0300

but...it does not work
I try /channelname of the user,
I try also with a word (that is in the post without the tag)... nothing
is still there :(
Does not work

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

Tue, 02 Oct 2018 10:47:10 -0300

New posts only, next time.

giac hellvecio

Tue, 02 Oct 2018 11:04:42 -0300

New posts only?
Is not a solution for the /pubstream today

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

Tue, 02 Oct 2018 11:07:21 -0300

I am not completely sure, but pretty sure filters act on incoming posts, i.e. already received posts are not handled again.

giac hellvecio

Tue, 02 Oct 2018 11:08:01 -0300

and what's /patterns/ ? I put what there? /channelname ? I don't understand how /patterns/ works.

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

Tue, 02 Oct 2018 11:13:59 -0300

I have not tried, but knowing Mike, I expect text pattern matching ala Awk and Sed.

giac hellvecio

Tue, 02 Oct 2018 11:16:21 -0300

can you give me an example?

Haakon Meland Eriksen (Parlementum)

Tue, 02 Oct 2018 11:28:13 -0300

I am making meat balls and tagliatelle, if you have not figured it out in two hours, give me shout.

giac hellvecio

Tue, 02 Oct 2018 11:30:05 -0300

ok.
I have not the slightest idea how to use / patterns /

Alexandre Hannud Abdo

Tue, 02 Oct 2018 14:19:09 -0300

Oi giac,
Use simple words, one per line.
If you really want to use patterns, search for: howto "regular expressions"
And yes I would expect it to work only on incoming posts.

giac hellvecio

Tue, 02 Oct 2018 16:19:01 -0300

I have a pastor in the hub, and I think you know who is, a religious,
I can not allow in /pustream a beautiful and great vagina without the tag, even being a famous work of art.
I think: what if he opens the pubstream with his wife? how will they react?
I can not afford to risk it just because a guy does not want to use a simple tool, created to help us all.
I have deleted who does not want to do me this favor of using the tag in public posts like that....
Sorted out.
I'm not perfect, but I try to do my best.
I can not always stress myself and waste time because a guy wants to use something that I have responsibility but without following all the rules, and without showing even a certain empathy.

Alexandre Hannud Abdo

Wed, 03 Oct 2018 07:28:40 -0300

It's your pubstream, it's ultimately your responsibility.
If you've restricted it to your hub, you can require in the terms of service that people using your hub apply whatever tags you want, no problem then.

On another note, a preacher that can't tell porn from a work of art is probably good reason to worry, but not about the pubstream. Want does he think of Michelangelo's David?

Radio Giaco

Wed, 03 Oct 2018 15:33:05 -0300

Não sei seu sabidão, pergunte para ele. Tu não sabe quem é?
Todo mundo sabe quem é,  desde os tempos de friendica...

ps:  todo mundo não , mas os velhos de friendica e red-matrix tem ele como conexão. #velha-guarda
ps2: esse hub ta uma merda depois de uma atualização de 10-15 dias atrás...e não tem mais  jeito parece. Não sei se foi  algo no código que matou  o bicho aqui  ou apenas azar... mas acho que o "main" admin se cansou mesmo dessa vez...ahi ahi

Radio Giaco

Wed, 03 Oct 2018 16:08:56 -0300

..e eu , considerando uma serie de coisas, não sei se estou a fim de clonar todas as minhas coisas ( vários canais/foruns), 'to cansado de um monte de coisas e de um monte de pessoas, as coisas mudam, normal, mas de um jeito que eu não gosto mesmo ( como o fato de considerar um pedido de n s f w como um bicho-papão ). Tu pedi para eu colocar ( o tu coloca) em uma imagem ou texto, pronto , eu coloco, No problem. Mas agora não é mais assim. Agora se alguém pedir um n s f w em «L’Origine du monde» cai o mundo! O mundo inteiro... e nasce uma polêmica da zorra sobre o quadro e sobre a TAG... :)) . Coisa mais ridícula para mim brigar por causa de uma coisa dessas. Coloca a tag e pronto. Nãooooo...caiu o mundo.. Sempre foi assim desde friendica aqui nessa comunidade, mas agora mudou, já colocaram não sei quantas vezes essa obra com a tag nesses anos todos, mas agora mudou, virou até moda apoiar o cara que se chateia porque alguém colocou a tag no post dele com aquela obra...Ahi ahi...fazer um escândalo e uma batalha por uma coisa tão pequena como uma ferramenta útil que não custa absolutamente NADA colocar. Não , agora virou bicho-papão LOL .... Mas esse povo não tem outras batalhas para fazer na rua mais importantes? Parece que não. Não, acho que não da mais para mim.
E, voltando a primeira frase deste comentário, tem um monte de foruns lá no hub, um monte (Tvseries - Ficção-cientifica - Cha - alguns de musicas ...vários..vários mesmo), e , serio, 'to cansado. E por sinal , como é uma versão dev, fica ainda mais difícil encontrar um hub que vai dar certo. Não sei não. Por agora me sinto muito cansado e sem a garra necessária.

Radio Giaco

Wed, 03 Oct 2018 16:26:58 -0300

Acho que eu não sou mais "feito" para ficar nessa onda de rede social e tal... não tenho nem mais a força de responder, cansei... olha aqui por ex.
https://joindiaspora.com/posts/992bda208f90013603080218b7d9f258

cansado desse povo maluco, única coisa boa talvez é que é #foss , mas o resto? igual o pior daquilo que eu tanto desprezo

Alexandre Hannud Abdo

Mon, 08 Oct 2018 06:44:38 -0300

Eu não tenho ideia de quem é seu amigo pastor.

Ninguem está brigando aqui, apenas discutindo pontos de vista diferentes sobre uma questão que você acha pequena maz que outras pessoas acham importante discutir, até para propor soluções que sejam mais garantidas para o seu caso do que depender da concordância dos outros.

Sobre redes em geral, usar FLOSS nuca impediu ninguém de ser mal educado. Usando FLOSS nós podemos desenhar redes que amplifiquem menos a voz dos trolls, mas não podemos desaparecer com eles.

Abs!

giac hellvecio

Mon, 08 Oct 2018 10:23:21 -0300

o nosso amigo ..nosso, de algumas pessoas aqui, de todas as mais velhas dessa rede.